Despite its premium price, the altMBA did not make live access to Godin the central benefit. Kao explains that the program was designed to challenge the belief that a celebrated expert has a secret answer, instead directing students toward action, iteration, and independent judgment.

The first cohort cost $3,000 per student.
Godin did not personally teach live sessions.
Some prospects expected premium pricing to include direct access.
The program rejected dependence on a guru or silver-bullet answer.
Projects and peer learning were positioned as the source of transformation.

“That a conversation with him will not solve your problems”
Wes Kao · 28:59

“the secret is actually doing the work is going out there, trying something, iterating, learning, looking for an advantage that you might have in a…”
Wes Kao · 29:58

#altmba#seth godin#gurus#education#agency

Story· 3

Story03:10

How a Rejected 16-Year-Old Built Donor Credibility

At 16, Wes Kao tried to secure donated backpacks and school supplies but retailers saw her as a child asking for free merchandise without proof. She funded the first delivery herself, attracted local press, and used the resulting newspaper coverage to establish credibility with donors the following year.

The idea began with excess school supplies in Kao’s bedroom.
Retailers rejected her because she had no track record or institutional backing.
She honored commitments using her own savings.
Local press coverage became proof for future donation requests.
Previously skeptical brands later contributed backpacks and stationery.

“And now looking back, it's like, of course, like I gave them no reason to trust me.”
Wes Kao · 05:07

“And I ended up being on the front page of the local newspaper.”
Wes Kao · 06:00

#nonprofit#credibility#rejection#marketing#entrepreneurship

Story19:07

A One-Take Application Led to Three Years with Seth Godin

Kao applied on a whim for a six-month special-projects role with Seth Godin while planning a move to New York. She deliberately avoided becoming emotionally attached to the opportunity, recorded the requested video in one take, won the role, and ultimately worked with Godin for three years.

The advertised position was initially limited to six months.
Applicants had to explain what they wanted to build, contribute, and learn.
Kao minimized emotional investment because she expected long odds.
She moved to New York with six suitcases after receiving the offer.
The collaboration lasted three years rather than six months.

“And I did my video in one take because I thought the chances of me getting this role were so slim that I didn't wanna…”
Wes Kao · 20:02

“And what was supposed to be a six month role ended up being three years of working together.”
Wes Kao · 20:38

#career#seth godin#opportunity#application#risk

Story40:25

Janky Tech Stacks Revealed the Opportunity for Maven

While consulting for prominent educators and creators, Kao saw teams with money and staff still struggling to assemble the software required for live courses. She recognized that technical complexity was excluding independent experts, then reconnected with Udemy co-founder Gagan Biyani and formed Maven around the opportunity.

Existing course platforms primarily supported static video hosting.
Live courses introduced operational complexity that available tools did not handle well.
Even well-funded clients relied on convoluted combinations of software.
Kao saw technical barriers preventing smaller experts from teaching online.
Her education expertise complemented Biyani’s product and company-building background.

“our skill sets are a pretty good match and we're both really bullish on this idea of core based courses being a game changer for…”
Wes Kao · 44:13

#maven#edtech#product discovery#saas#founders

Takeaway· 2

Takeaway09:19

Why Learning Beside Peers Accelerated Kao’s Craft

Kao’s Gap rotational program exposed her to multiple brands, business functions, and practitioners doing similar work in different ways. She argues that observing those variations builds nuanced craft knowledge that can be harder to acquire when someone is the only specialist on a small team.

The program rotated participants across Gap, Old Navy, and Banana Republic.
Kao learned merchandising, analysis, and supply-chain fundamentals.
Peers used different forecasting and management-influence styles.
Comparing practitioners revealed nuances and recurring patterns.
She prioritizes mastery of the work over promotion alone.

“Like just seeing the range of different people doing kind of the same thing really, but with a bunch of different approaches was so, so…”
Wes Kao · 11:29

“But I really, I believe in falling in love with, with the actual work, with getting really good at the actual work and being able…”
Wes Kao · 12:03

#career#craft#mentorship#business#learning

Takeaway45:50

Worry Less to Reclaim Energy for What You Control

Looking back across her ventures, Kao says she would tell her earlier selves to worry less. She describes worry and self-consciousness as energy drains that can prevent action, especially for overthinkers imagining every possible failure or judgment.

Starting new ventures naturally produces doubt.
Overthinkers can become trapped in branching hypothetical outcomes.
Fear of judgment can inhibit cold outreach, selling, or publishing.
Other people think about you less than you imagine.
Recovered mental energy can be redirected toward controllable effort.

“I would say to that person to worry less, I'm a worrier by nature and it's something that I've been working on for, you know,…”
Wes Kao · 45:50

“people are not judging you or thinking about you as much as you are thinking about yourself.”
Wes Kao · 46:38

#worry#overthinking#founders#confidence#action

Frameworks in this episode

Live-First Course Validation

Opposite-Model Course Design

Ruthlessly Practical Strategy

Simplify First

Insights & moments

⚡Myth Buster· 1

Why the altMBA Refused to Sell Access to Seth Godin

❝Story· 3